Posted by Anuj Singh on 06/21/13 10:28pm
I am a candidate from India. I am interested i applying for CEMS MIM. I have already applied to LSM louvain and the only other options are NUS and Uni of Sydney. About me, I have an Above average degree in commerce of University of Delhi, I have almost 4 years of work experience(with 2 years at managerial level). I know Hindi and English fluently and basic french and spanish(I am working on both currently), a GMAT score of 680(Will be appearing for that again).
I want to ask you that with this profile what are the odds of me getting into these Universities, also will the fact that I have a four years exp work against me. I also would like to know that does bieng an Non eu affect my Job opportunities after this course.
Posted by Thomas Graf on 06/21/13 11:07pm
thank you for your question. May I ask why you apply for a MIM? With 4 years of work experience you are the perfect MBA candidate. Also, your GMAT score is great. You should have great chances to get in at any MBA program.
By Thomas Graf
Posted by Anuj Singh on 06/21/13 11:24pm
Thanks for your response Thomas, well I am only interested in CEMS MIM programme. This course provides everything that I want from my masters degree. The kind of exposure that it provides and International Business is the field I would like to make a career in. Not many International MBA courses offer a better employment rate. Also, I want to persue my Masters from Europe at the same time I want a two year degree. This course fulfil all me requirements. I have talked to many CEMS alumni and their experience has motivated me more towards this course. I have been researching for quite a while on this course and until unless I get a call from the TOP 15 B-schools I would any day prefer do CEMS MIM rather then an MBA.(Not that I am saying its a better course then other MBA but its just my personal preferenc).
Posted by Thomas Graf on 06/22/13 5:30pm
thank you for your answer. I am not sure if that's a good approach actually. The companies likely recruit CEMS graduates for job entry positions and less advanced positions for professionals like you. At least, I would clear the following with the three schools before you decide:
As for your chances to become accepted, you first need to apply for the respective school's Master in Management program. Once being accepted you can also apply for the CEMS MIM. So your question actually turns into two questions: Would they accept you for their MIM programs? And if yes, what are the chances to become accepted also for the CEMS MIM (again: It is an additional Master)? In terms of your academic pre-experience and grades as well as your GMAT, I think your chances should be good for both. However, I don't know if the four years of work experience would work against you. Personally, I would not accept you if I was in the program management position because the MIM is for people without or only little work experience. You, instead, are a clear MBA candidate. The schools may treat this issue differently and still accept you however. Just ask them directly if your work experience creates a problem.
You can find the CEMS contacts for these three schools at the CEMS website.
As for your job chances, CEMS MIM graduates in general have very good perspectives. 96 percent are recruited within 3 months after graduation. In your case, however, the question again is: Do you profit from the CEMS company network if you actually are a young professional looking for advanced positions?
But you may need to other positions than those that your classmates apply for.
Posted by Anuj Singh on 06/22/13 9:25pm
Thanks a lot again. Well I got your point. Frankly I did not consider the age(exp) factor as a consideration before. I just had a word with a CEMS alumni and he had similar views. He told me that average age for CEMS students is 22-23 and this will not only be an issue in connecting with other students but also an issue while applying for jobs. The thing is I do not consider myself ready for an MBA right now but at the same time I need a good master to get into a better position. Although right now I am at a managerial position but my current company is not very huge and the exposure has not been very enhancing, and now to get into a good position in a good company I have to compete with MBAs (In India people do MBA straight after graduation and the same is the expectation of the employers until unless you are from a tech background) thats why I thought of doing a master first. I want to gain some good experience before I do my MBA as there I will be competing with seasoned professionals. Then Finance is another issue, the master from LSM louvain will cost approx 3000-4000 euros. I hope I have been able to express my situation to you. I have been trying to find people to help me out with this dilemma but till now it hasn't been fruitful. Your advice is really important for me as you have been dealing in this field, so I would really like to know what would you recommend.
Posted by Thomas Graf on 06/23/13 11:23am
I understand your situation. Some more comments.
First, it confuses me a bit when you say that in India people do an MBA "straight after graduation". The Master of Business Administration (MBA) is a degree for working professionals, and indeed not for graduates, - and bringing professionals together so that they can share their experience in the classroom is a key idea behind an MBA. So, for a (real) MBA doing it straight after graduation shouldn't be possible actually...I guess you mean the "Postgraduate Programs in Management", which only exist in India to my knowlegde and are less rigid in terms of work experience than the official MBA.
This leads to the second point: "I do not consider myself ready for an MBA right now". I can say, at least based on your profile, you are very well apt for an MBA. You have a first academic degree, you have sufficient years of professional experience, and you have a great GMAT score. You should have good chances to become accepted - at least, if you write your essays well and pass the interviews successfully.
Finally, the money. This is indeed an issue and I can perfectly understand your concerns here. There are several ways out here: One is, you apply for an MBA and apply for scholarships at the same time. With a 680 GMAT score you at least become eligibe to apply for a merit-based scholarship at many schools and you can also apply for need-based scholarships. Check the financial aid pages of business school websites and include further schools into your list.
Furthermore, you can ask your employer to support you but I guess that's very unlikely as oyu want to leave after the MBA anyway. You can continue working to save more money. And yes, you can go for another Master and after that get a better job and after that for an MBA. But that's a long-term strategy.
For the moment, I think you should elaborate more on your chances with respect to get an MBA financed. Just doing a master (and spending the money) may be the wrong decision - you may do it out of a certain pressure situation because you feel uncomfortabe where you are right now, but that could be misleading. Instead, I would investigate in schools that you find interesting and their financial aid pages. Again: Keep in mind that schools offer merit-based and need-based scholarships and that you may be able to apply for both of the. Check the schools you mentioned but also open yourself to other offers.
Posted by Anuj Singh on 06/23/13 1:22pm
Firstly, regarding the MBA, in India, there is no difference between a PGD in Management and an MBA. As here only a University can offer a degree all other institutes which are not aligned to any Uni only offer PGDBM. Even IIMs and ISB which are the best institutes here and are known world over offer only PGDMs, and although work exp is recommended it is nowhere a requirement(except for ISB). Therefore ate 27 you majority of the candidates for good positions are already MBA(There is no MIM here only MBA). I know it doesn't make sense but thats how it is
Secondly, I know on the face of it I meet all the requirements of an MBA but its the exposure which I think I do not have enough of. As I mentioned I worked in a small domestic firm and here the environment in a domestic firm is absolutely different from a big corporate. I know I can get into a good B- school but that is my concern. Such school will have candidates from good MNC or big Domestic companies with great profiles. Hence I want to have a good exposure before I get into the battle with them. At the moment if I try to get a job here in India with my current qualifications I will not get a better position then entry level.
Finally regarding Scholarships, Even if I get a scholarship(which will only be a partial one) even then the total expense will come around 50000 USD(cause if I do now I would only take up a 2 year degree).My long term plan was. After MIM I will work in a good MNC get some good experience and after few years go for an Part time or a 1 year MBA (or executive). I really like the CEMS curriculum, I havent seen many course that provides an experience like this one, there is immense international exposure. great chance to networking, learn from so many people from such diverse background. This is what I want from a course. Also in future I would like to work in Europe but rather then taking 40000USD risk in the current economy there I would rather take a 5000 euro risk.
What I want to know from you is:- Is my reasoning irrational? Does a CEMS at this stage of my carrer a step down? Does it make no sense if I do this course right now.
Posted by Thomas Graf on 06/25/13 3:34pm
nothing what you say is irrational. I can understand you perfectly. The question is, however, what is the best for you. Some more comments:
I wouldn't bother too much about not being prepared for the challenge with other MBA students (your classmates). I remember I had similar fears when I started my Executive MBA a few years ago. I was much younger and by far less experienced than my classmates. This was intimidating and in the beginning it took some emotional effort to build up self-confidence that what I had to say was not always inferior to what the others had to say. But at the end of the day I learnt so much from my colleagues (and finished my degree with a top grade) that it was only beneficial for me. Hence, my personal opinion is: If that's the only concern you have and if you think you need education now, then move on with the MBA.
The other comment is: I think you plan too much into the future. The question is: What do you need right now? If you are unhappy with your career chances and job situation, yes, a postgraduate degree in management would make sense. Now the question is: What's the best option for you? And as Krishh says, it is an MBA. What you do in some years, whether you need another education then or not, if you then do it full-time or part-time.. you will find that out when the time is right.
Finally, I am still waiting for feedback from CEMS (I asked them about the work experience and if this could be a kick-out criterion). Will let you know when I receive answer.
Posted by Anuj Singh on 06/25/13 6:33pm
Thanks a lot for your advice. It has been really helpful for me. I guess the only reason I am inclined toward CEMS course is because I really like the course and the curriculum but I guess MBA would suit be better for my career. Thanks again I really appreciate your effort, I am glad I came to this forum otherwise I might have ended up making a wrong decision.
Thanks Krishh for you suggestion.:)
Posted by krishna Bhardwaj on 06/23/13 11:04pm
Hi Anuj,First i would like to clear ur doubts about PGDM and MBA. It is a myth or we can say long term effect of flocking that PGDM is equivalent to MBA degree.If u see PGDM in global context then it is a MIM program,example IIMA PGDM program placed in FT MIM ranking while IIMA PGPex placed in FT MBA ranking along with ISB which requires work experience but PGDM does not.MBA is meant for candidates from any background with work experience.For more detailed u can read the article in QS magazine 2010 issue.Secondly ur profile is more suitable for MBA(my personal choice)
Posted by Thomas Graf on 07/02/13 1:46pm
I just received feedback from CEMS, regarding your 4 years:
"Thank you for your email. Our university member schools are fully in charge of their own selection process. Four years of previous work experience does not disqualify any candidate into the programme. Typically because the MIM degree is a pre-experience degree of the best of the best business students from the top business schools in the world, CEMS graduates qualify beyond entry level positions. A CEMS graduate is recognized as a qualified professionals and can often find advanced positions. Once apart of the network, a graduate will have a lifetime global network of peers and alumni that is expanding and growing stronger each year."
So, you can apply even with 4 years of work experience. I am curious on the experience you make when you apply (e.g., do you really get in?) and even more if you become accepted (e.g. what job offers will you get). Would be great if you could keep me updated.
Posted by Anuj Singh on 07/03/13 7:11am
Thanks a lot for all your held. I will sure keep you updates with whatever progress I make. I am still waiting for acceptance. Although in Louvain you first need to be selected for the Msc in Management course and then you can apply fo CEMS. So I admission in to Msc does not guaranty admission into CEMS, but whatever update there is I will keep you informed.
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