Forum: General Forum (10 Comments)

urgent advice required

  • Posted by - godchamp - on 4 December 2013 - 9:47pm

    Good evening thomas sir

    I was lucky enough to receive an admission from hec paris, escp europe and em lyon for their mim (grande ecole programs.)

    I am from India and I will only join hec paris out of these 3 if at all I do.

    The hec registration fees is 6000 euros which in terms of my domestic currency is quite a huge amount and thus I need to take a decision quickly.

    I require your advice as to whether I should go for hec or not.

    I specifically want you to guide me in terms of placements. Yes I do want to work in the eu and I have talked to a couple of hec alumni. They are of the opinion that as an indian I may have problems landing a good job in europe due to language and cultural barriers. What is your take on the kind of placement opportunities for international students at hec paris, given your expertise through numerous surveys and years of experience.?

    I absolutely love the program in terms of academic opportunities etc. But placement is a main issue since the program involves an investment of 50000 euros which represents years and years of savings for my family. If I end up being in a poor job, it may have poor financial implications for me.
    I have contacted the school but they have refused to provide data specifically for international students. Can you please guide me through this tough decision given I have already contacted the school and the alumni?

    Thanks in advance

    • Posted by - Nishant - on 6 December 2013 - 4:12pm

      Vishwajitser what have you decided?

    • Posted by - Rakesh - on 6 December 2013 - 2:54pm

      Hi Thomas,

      That's exactly the problem I'm facing. I got selected for HEC and ESCP. I was hoping, I would opt for the school that would offer me a better scholarship. However, knowing the Merit Scholarship Results would require me to confirm my admission by the payment of 5000-6000 Euros at both the schools, which itself is a huge amount.

      So the picture isn't very clear. I'm slightly inclined towards HEC but I think ESCP is more generous giving scholarships (the impression I got contacting some of the students). I can't afford to spend 11,000 Euros just to know the scholarship results. If I had that much money, I wouldn't be relying on scholarships.

      Secondly, even after a good scholarship it will be a huge investment for someone like me in India. I'll have to go for Education and Personal Loans at very high interest rates. Third, there are cultural and language barriers. Also the economy isn't in that good shape.

      I would've taken the risk if the schools had assured me about the scholarship results. However, now I'm confused and unable to decide.

      Please advise what I should do in such a scenario.

      Thanks, will appreciate your response.

      Regards

      • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 7 December 2013 - 2:23pm

        "So the picture isn't very clear. I'm slightly inclined towards HEC but I think ESCP is more generous giving scholarships (the impression I got contacting some of the students). I can't afford to spend 11,000 Euros just to know the scholarship results. If I had that much money, I wouldn't be relying on scholarships."

        Hi there again,

        this is a very private decision and - again -. I can only tell you MY PRIVATE opinion. EITHER I have the money to do the studies OR I depend on a scholarship. If I have the money, I would choose the school that I want to study at - and hope that I get a scholarship afterwards. If I do NOT have the money to study (in other words: if I depend on a scholarship), I would not spend EUR 5,000 or 6,000 to a school hoping (but not knowing) that I get a scholarship.

        "Secondly, even after a good scholarship it will be a huge investment for someone like me in India. I'll have to go for Education and Personal Loans at very high interest rates. Third, there are cultural and language barriers. Also the economy isn't in that good shape. I would've taken the risk if the schools had assured me about the scholarship results. However, now I'm confused and unable to decide."

        I think you need more information on placement scenarios. The schools' websites or the schools' carer and admissions teams should be able to provide you with information on:

        • How many students of your nationality did they place sucessfully in the last 3 years? Where and when did they find a job?
        • How many students in general find a job within 3 months after graduating?
        • What career services do they offer?
        • Can they bring you in contact with a current studnet and an alumnus/alumna - ideally from your country - so that you can contact them?

        After reading everything you wrote to me, my impression is that you shouldn't decide for the MIM right now. First you need either the guarantee of a scholarship or better information about career outcomes (along the tips I gave you above). Otherwise, the decision seems to be to risky and also psychologically too stressful. Keep in mind that you can stuyd a Master/MBA whatever anytime in you life - as a full-time or part-time program. I would rather wait until you have a clear decision than choosing a program under pressure.

        Again, thee are my private thoughts. The decision is yours.

        Best wishes
        Thomas

        By Thomas Graf

      • Posted by - vishwajitster - on 6 December 2013 - 4:31pm

        Rakesh's GMAT score: 700

        So far I want to the US of A! (No tension of language & brighter opportunities) What about you Nihsant?

        • Posted by - Nishant - on 6 December 2013 - 4:33pm

          Mail me at Nichu_42@yahoo.com we can have chat there thanks

      • Posted by - Nishant - on 6 December 2013 - 4:10pm

        What was your gmat score rakesh?

      • Posted by - vishwajitster - on 6 December 2013 - 4:03pm

        Hi Thomas,

        Another query along the same lines. I got throogh ESCP and hold a deferred offer from LSE. Considering the economic situation in Europe, I am considering ditching both and applying to DUKE MMS Program, since I belive US has much better opportunities and I will have more assured returns on my inverstment. Another feature which inclines me towards Duke is the much recognized Brand Name of Duke Fuqua (Globally and in India specially) + it is a 10 month program (I graduate early )with a 1 year OPT Visa for internship if one does not land up a job (safety net). I believe one can work in the US for another 1 year without any VISA barrier after which one has to get sponsored by a company (work VISA). Do you think it makes sense to ditch ESCP Europe or for that matter LSE? (have to deposit 5000 Euros by 10th December)

        • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 7 December 2013 - 2:33pm

          "Another query along the same lines. I got through ESCP and hold a deferred offer from LSE. Considering the economic situation in Europe, I am considering ditching both and applying to DUKE MMS Program, since I belive US has much better opportunities and I will have more assured returns on my inverstment. Another feature which inclines me towards Duke is the much recognized Brand Name of Duke Fuqua (Globally and in India specially) + it is a 10 month program (I graduate early )with a 1 year OPT Visa for internship if one does not land up a job (safety net). I believe one can work in the US for another 1 year without any VISA barrier after which one has to get sponsored by a company (work VISA). Do you think it makes sense to ditch ESCP Europe or for that matter LSE? (have to deposit 5000 Euros by 10th December)"

          Honestly, sentences such as "In Europe there are fewer jobs" or "in the US the economic situation is better" appear too general for me. In fact, you compare very large regions and in the case of Europe many different individual countries with each other. You can get jobs in all these countries and you can get unemployed in all these countries. Of course, I understand that you are concerned about finding a job after graduation - but I recommend looking more specifically at each school's placement activities and also on your preferences (e.g. where do you want to live and work? what are your favorite employers and do they recruit at the specific campuses?).

          If you want to work in the US; the Duke clearly makes sense. Also, everything you say about Duke's brand in the US and the VISA options make sense to me.

          If you want to work in Europe, all three schools may be helpful. If you want to work in the UK, however, LBS may be very valuable; and if you want to work in France, ESCP may provide advantages (as a Grand Ecole). In the LBS and ESCP case, I would try to get into contact with the schools' career offices. How much experience do they have with placing people of your nationality in the last 3 years? Where did they end up working and how long did it take to find a job? I would also ask the to bring you in contact with an alumni of your nationality.

          Best wishes
          Thomas

          by Thomas Graf

    • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 5 December 2013 - 1:14pm

      Hi there,

      I understand your concern. My general thoughts are:

      (1) I would not study and invest so much money without having the money or without having a clear finance plan.

      (2) I think that education always helps. You learn and gain competencies. Whatever you are doing later and wherever you are doing it - you will profit from this.

      (3) Studying at an institution with a international reputation may be very helpful, particularly if you want to work for a globally operating company (that knows about the school) and if you want to work in the same country that the school is located (where the school has a local network).

      (4) I would not invest money - and definitely not so much in a school that does not provide me with important answers IN ADVANCE. If I have doubts on the outcome of a program investment, then the school should take this serious and give me some arguments why I still should invest so much.

      Now, specifically with respect to the HEC it is a difficult decision. I understand your doubts, On one hand, HEC is a very renowned institution, with an excellent standing in France and beyond, great professors, etc. On the other hand, you have some concrete questions and I am very surprised to hear that they don't provide you with satisfying answers.

      What you can do is: You can ask the school to bring you in contact with (1) current students from India and (2) ex students (alumni) from India. Then you can contact them and ask them about their impression with respect to career chances after graduation. If HEC does not even provide you with such contacts - this means that they did not give you with anything that could help you solve your problem. This means that they ask you to invest money "into the blue" - and personally, I understand if you don't want to do that.

      Another thing you can do is: Contact some of your favorite employers in India and ask them if they recruit from HEC and if the HEC degree would provide you with an advantage when you apply at these employers.

      Best wishes
      Thomas

      By Thomas Graf