Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 21 July 2011 - 6:36pm

• Posted by - Lena - on 21 March 2012 - 1:26pm

  Hello,

  First of all, though it sounds really typical and repeαted, my congratulations also from my part for the initiative of such a valuable and helpful site. I have had so much trouble and misunderstandings until discovering this site! Thank you!
  I would be really grateful if I had your advice, so let me describe a bit the situation in which i currently am.

  I am a graduate of Law school and this year i have been following a Master in Civil LAw at the same university as that of my bachelor, while doing my obligatory traineeship in a Law Firm. After having followed these studies and experienced the life of a lawyer for a while, and after having done a lot of research concerning corporate world and management careers, i realised i am really interested in it and would like to change career orientation and try entering a new kind of job within a company. To this has also contributed that I 've worked in the HR-department of a big telecommuninaction company for one year and I've found that very appealing.

  So, I would like to ask if -with such a background-, a Master in Managememt would be suitable for my case and views and if it would indeed qualify me to that extent that a company would prefer me in a relevant managerial position ( of course at an entry level) , despite the fact that I have no business-economic background and that my prior field of studies is completely irrelevant. To be honest, these are my sole doubts in doing an MIM, since I see more and more students with a business background doing MIMs/MBAs, so I ask myself, why would a company opt for employees like me just because of a MIM (as for the studies' qualifications) ? Isn't such a change of career and studies regarded as negative? Or, in my case, would such a Master be just a boost for me in getting a higher position strictly and only within the limits of Law-related companies/sectors? Finally, I'd like to ask if a Master in General Management (for example) is too general to apply for and be considered as a good candidate in more specialised positions (eg. HR or marketing).
  Hope my concerns were enough explained, I'd really appreciate your advice!

  Thanks,
  Lena

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 22 March 2012 - 1:14pm

    Dear Lena,

    First of all, thank you a lot for your nice words. It is very encouraging for us any time that someone says it.

    I completely understand your questions and there will be no general answer to them. The general answer, actually, would be: It depends :)

    Your fist question: Provided that you had done the Master in Management (MIM): Why would a company prefer you over someone that has a business bachelor?

    My answer is: Because there may be more criteria involved in a firm’s recruitment decision than just someone’s undergraduate degree. For instance:

    • The firm’s philosophy may play a role: Are they looking for diversity or do they have a narrow profile in mind when recruiting to managing-related position? Strategy consulting companies, for instance, aim at recruiting graduates from different backgrounds. Similar for Investment Banks ettc.
    • Your prior experience may fit to the position: Maybe the position that you apply to may not be a lawyer’s position but “touch” this area somehow. Or your telecommunication/HR experience may perfectly fit to the position that you are applying to.
    • Your overall CV may be better than someone else’s (grades, reputation of school, international experience, interns, languages, etc.)
    • The type of position (regular entry position vs. trainee) may play a role: A trainee-leadership position that brings you into different departments of a firm (maybe even a multi-product or globally acting firm) for 18 months may be open for graduates from all disciplines.
    • The career service and network of the business school may play role. If you narrow down your potential MIM selection to 3 or 5 programs that are open for non-business graduates (by the way: 75% of the MIM programs are NOT limited to business or economics graduates; not all of these 75% are open to all disciplines but you can find many MIM programs that explicitly target people like you) – then get in contact with them and ask about their placement records.
    • The job market may play a role: What if a firm urgently seeks a qualified person and doesn’t find it? Leads back to the “your overall CV” comment above…
    • The job diversity of a firm: My impression is that for many jobs you simply don’t need a pure academic business experience. Instead, often it is sufficient that someone has some experience, speaks the business language and offers meta-competencies in analytical thinking.

    Bottom-Line: There may be many reasons why a firm would hire you over some with a pure academic background in business. Now your job will be

    • To find these jobs
    • To emphasize your specific and unique job profile
    • And ideally find jobs that are linked to your specific profile

    Your second question: Wouldn’t it be better to do a specialized Master, for example in HR or Finance?

    Well, this depends solely on your preferences. If you know in advance that you want to work I the HR-department after graduating it may be a good idea to study a Master in HR Management. Also a general Management Master may work out here but why not shaping your profile such that it fits more to your future job? A Master in HR may also provide you with a proper firm network or in-company projects during your studies.

    So, my advice is: If you know TODAY that you want to work in a specific segment after graduation try to find the BEST program for THIS. And “best program” can mean: that qualifies you with the best content, network and reputation.

    Your third question: Would a Management education be helpful in the law firm environment or law environment in general?

    I am not expert for lawyer careers but I work for a career company that brings law students and firms together. So, I have some exposure. My impression is – at least in Germany – that there is the classical way (a pure law education) and there is a new way of young successful lawyers that enrich their experience base by doing an MBA for instance. Then they keep on working in a global law society with focus on mergers & acquisitions for instance or due diligence.

    So, upfront I see a Management education as something positive for a career as lawyer provided that you work in the area of corporate law. It may particularly help you to work (or start to work) on the side of a business firm – in the legal department.

    A save way to find this out, however, is that you simply make a list of some potential future employers (or their competitors…) and contact the HR department. Ask them openly about how they would acknowledge a Management Master in combination with a law education in their firm.

    These are just some inspirational thoughts and I hope they will be useful for you.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - karthix - on 4 February 2012 - 8:23am

  Thanks for the valuable suggestions Thomas! Yeah, I would like to go with third alternative :)

  How well do you think that this alternative would suit my plan of switching to Finance or Management domain? I'm pretty sure but I hope you would present me a more realistic perspective of how the things exactly work out. Is this the better call to make, if not the best, to make the switch?

  Thanks!
  Karthik

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 5 February 2012 - 12:06pm

    Hi Karthik,

    for people with an engineering background most often there are several ways to switch to the Finance or Management domain:

    1. They graduate in engineering, work some years as an engineer, maybe become project manager after some time, and finally do an MBA to qualify for more management-oriented positions - either in their own firm or by changing the employer. Which positions exactly depends on too many things to anticipate here - but that's one way. In other words, they START their career as engineers and CHANGE their career later on. This does NOT seem to be your option :)

    2. They obtain a first academic degree in engineering and apply directly for business-related positions.
       For example, consulting firms such as McKinsey or BCG are strongly interested in people with an engineering background. You start to work directly on a project and get business skills on the job and through training - and after some years (that's how it work ins Germany at least) you can do an MBA or PhD sponsored by your employer. In addition, after some years many consultants change their employer and start on a management position directly at one of the consultancy firm's clients.
       An alternative may be investment banks who constantly seek for people with analytics skills for their analyst positions. Similar to the consultancy firms you may start at such a bank and change into a management or financial position at any other firm after some years fo experience.
       Trainee programs (at non consulting firms or investment firms) with engineers as a target group and with the goal of qualifying for management positions may be a third option.
       Now whether these options work out for you is something you need to find out by talking to the firms.

    3. They obtain a first academic degree in engineering and directly do a Master in a business-related field. That's YOUR option. In this case you postponde your job entry to gain more qualifications first. In general, graduates from Masters in Management or Finance should have more options than the people from point 2 (direct entry with a first degree). So yes, in general, this is a way for you to start NOT as an engineer but as...

    • a project manager in an engineering context
    • trainee
    • investment banking analyst
    • consultant
    • trainee
    • or many other positions depending on the specific context (your overall profile, the economy in the specific country you want to work, the business school's career service etc. etc.)

    One thing you may want to consider: If you are strongly interested in financial management why not doing a Master in Finance right now? We have more than 200 fulltime Masters in Finance in our database that do not require a first degree in a business- or econoimics-related field.

    Finally: Once you have decided for a program type and some schools talk to

    • the school's representatives
    • the career service
    • students
    • and alumni

    to check out to what degree the school can support you by finding an employer.

    All the best
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - karthix - on 31 January 2012 - 2:26pm

  Hi Thomas!

  Was able to find the site while I was on Google gathering info for Masters in Management courses. I must say this is the most comprehensive website for what I exactly wanted. The forum and the blogs had been extremely helpful in narrowing down on the course or a college. Keep the good work going!

  Coming to myself, I'm Karthik from India. Completed my Bachelors in Engineering at one of top private Universities at India last year. Currently working with Accenture India, since 6 months. Though I had graduated with engineering background, I really want to make a career shift to financial management. I had previously confined myself looking for opportunities inside my country in the form of MBA of 2 years, but later found the MSc Management courses at EU and US.

  Going through the websites of the Universities and getting to learn from the Indian students who had been there at some the universities of my interest, I was well convinced about the course content and teaching, but the employment opportunities were bleak at UK or the entire of EU.

  The reason I want to make a shift now instead of MBA at later period is that, once I am well experienced in IT industry , which I'm currently working in, I'm afraid I wouldn't be much considered by major Financial or Consulting firms, where I want to work. The work I'm currently doing is something which I CAN DO, but not the one I WANT TO DO. Hence, I made clear of why I want to do this course. The later questions to answered are, where and when?

  I need to give GMAT yet , so I expect to give a shot at 2013 admissions of the Universities as the deadlines for 2012 class aren't in my reach. Meanwhile, I would carry on with my job. I preferred USA colleges like Duke - MMS and Simon GSB - MS Finance over UK universities as there were better employment and scholarship opportunities. I'm also looking for LSE and Imperial, London as they are of high reputation.

  I seek your valuable opinion here on my choices and also advices. I'd also inform my friends and had also informed some schools that I had found out about the course from your Website when I was contacting their Admission counselors with few basic questions of mine.

  Highly appreciate your efforts for this Website and look forward for your opinion.

  Thanks!
  Karthik

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 1 February 2012 - 2:05pm

    Hi Karthik,

    thank you for your kind words about our site. Much appreciated!!!

    Now, having read your message I understand that you want to broaden your profile from an expert profile (engineering / information technology) to general management.

    Now you have three opportunities:
    (1) You could do the GMAT as soon as possible (let's say within 3 months os that you have it by the end of April) and apply for a Master in Management (MIM) that starts in fall 2012 (for example, check our Deadlines section for this please).

    • Advantage: You immediately increase your qualification.
    • Disadvantage: You give up a decent position at a renowned employer only after one year

    (2) You could keep on working for Accenture and apply in 2012 for an MBA in 2013.

    • Advantages: You get general management qualification in a program with more advanced people who all have work experience; you have three years of professional experience then at a renowned company (something very valuable)
    • Disadvantage: You may need to work a bit longer in a position that you CAN do but don't WANT to do

    (3) As you described, you could go for an MIM in 2013. Then you have 1.5 years of professional experience.

    • Advantage: You have a perspective that may help you psychologically and in terms of motivation for the next 18 months in your job; and you get a general management education;
    • Disadvantage: You may feel a bit strange in a program where most people are just graduates => you should look for an MIM program where most people have at least some months of professiona experience (e.g. the IE Business School MIM or others.)

    My impression is that the third option indeed is the best for you:

    • You don't give up a decent position now - this allows you to save some money, gain experience, and have something for your CV
    • You don't need to decide now: If you still want to do an MIM in 2013 you can decide next year. Maybe your views change and you go for an MBA then...
    • You still have a perspective and motivational boost because you have a plan.

    You can also use our Request Info Button, e.g. at the schools who invest in us (on the right side of this page) and ask the schools for advise.

    As for the school selection, you could investigate a bit which schools have experience with Indian MIM students and where these people found a job after the MIM.

    I hope I could be helpful.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - Hariharan - on 20 January 2012 - 5:55pm

  Hello Mr.Thomas,

  One Query from my side,

  Do you recommend studying in europe at this time of euro crisis?
  What are the risks, do you think,are involved when a international lands in europe to study MIM?

  PS: I mainly target UK and French universities.

  Thanks in Advance.

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 20 January 2012 - 10:43pm

    Dear Hariharan,

    thank you for your question. It is a very broad question, however, so...here is my reaction:

    Fist, in my opinion, education always makes sense - and especially in times of crises.

    Second, there is not only crisis in Europe. Where crisis is there are opportunities and Europe needs qualified people with motivation and creative ideas.

    Third, maybe we shouldn't perceive an Master in Management or MBA as some nice advertisements want to make us - as an entry ticket to richness or success. It is not that simple. We can not expect to study one year and get the career perspective served on a tablet. And in my opinion this is good. Eventually, a career means work, quality, effort, engagement, and passion. A Master is one mosaic stone in an overall career-development picture. It can be an important pice of your education depending on where you study and what resources the school can provide you with (competence, network, reputation etc.). But still it can only be one part.

    Fourth, it makes sense - in general but especially in times of crisis - to carefully consider the moment of studying. If you have a decent job (or a job opportunity) and feel satisfied for the moment - why giving this up for an expensive Master? Maybe you'd better wait a bit more, gain more experience, save some more money and THEN go for a MIM or MBA. Alternatively, if you are not happy in your job (or if you do not have a decent job opportunity) then a Master can give your career a new direction.

    Fifth, what means risk? In my personal opinion you should not burden yourself with too much debts (if you should do that at all). Choose a program that you can afford and find a good finance mix (savings, scholarships or loans, maybe emoloyer support).

    I hope I could inspire you a bit and provide your thought with some new perspectives.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

    • Posted by - Hariharan - on 23 January 2012 - 6:22pm

      Thanks a ton for your promt reply Mr.Thomas.

      Your explanation was very helpful indeed. Let me research a bit on those issues and come back.

      And I would like to know about IESE Bussiness school in Fracne.
      How do you see it?

      Thanks in Advance,
      Hariharan Venkat

      Reply

      • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 23 January 2012 - 8:30pm

        Hi Hariharan,

        IESE is in Barcelona (Spain). In France are HEC, ESSEC, and others. IESE and HEC are both top-ranked schools.

        Best wishes
        Thomas

        Reply

• Posted by - DiegoGlez - on 19 January 2012 - 7:09pm

  Hi Thomas,

  Let me explain my situation.

  I have a BA in International Studies (graduated in 2010). I did a three-month Internship at the Spanish Embassy in Caracas and worked for six months as a Brand Marketing Intern at British American Tobacco Venezuela. After completed the internship, the company offered me a position as Trade Marketing Representative. I worked for 9 months in that position. I currently work as a Buyer in an Imp-Exp company where I`ve been almost a year.

  I'm willing to start my postgraduate studies next September. The thing is that I’m not sure if I’m too old (I’ll be 26 by next September) and have already gain too much work experience to apply for a MiM or too young and have not so much relevant work experience to apply for a MBA.

  What program do you think suits me better?

  Thanks in advance for your help.

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 19 January 2012 - 10:20pm

    Hi Diego,

    thank you for your question. Ok, let me count...

    • three-month Internship at the Spanish Embassy in Caracas
    • worked for six months as a Brand Marketing Intern at British American Tobacco Venezuela
    • the company offered me a position as Trade Marketing Representative - I worked for 9 months in that position
    • as a Buyer in an Imp-Exp company where I`ve been almost a year

    So, if I am correct you have about 2.5 years of work experience after your undergraduates right now. When you start your Master you will have about 3 years, right?

    First, provided that the Business Schools accept your internships as professional experience, I would go for an MBA in that case. The reason has nothing to do with your age of 26 but with the different focusses of the MIM and MBA.

    • The Master in Management (MIM) focusses on graduates who want to START a career.
    • The MBA is for young professionals and professionals who want to DEVELOP their career

    You seem to have started your career already. Therefore, an MBA could be nice option to give it another push.

    Second, it may make sense to wait a bit more and work one or two years more until you start an MBA - just to get more experience and become more settled in business. Especially if you feel happy in your current position.

    Finally, you can also go for a Master in Management (MIM), especially when you choose a program where the students have some work experience at least as for example at the Master in International Management at IE Business School. However, it seems to me that you are too far away from your graduation already so that an MBA may be the better alternative.

    Now you have my opinion on this. In addition, I would recommend you to talk to your favorite three, four, or five business schools - either for an MIM or for an MBA - and ask the directly what they would recommend you and why. Keep in mind that many business schools offer both, an MIM and an MBA, so that you can talk to both departments of the same school and compare their answers.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - sumanth319 - on 5 January 2012 - 5:22am

  hi sir,
  thank you very much for your valuable information and time spent..... as u mentioned i will try to contact them...
  Thanking you
  yours sincerely
  Sumanth

  Reply

• Posted by - sumanth319 - on 1 January 2012 - 7:54pm

  Hi sir,
  I am sumanth from india and currently pursuing my bachelors into my 3rd year, will be completing by 2013.
  I have a decent cgpa of 8.5 on a 10 scale and i am really interested in doing an mba,but since work experience is compulsory in many good b-schools people suggested me to go with mim...
  I am really confused.
  i really want to clarify a few doubts

  1. i have scheduled my gmat on 31st of jan.....now i am a bit confused whether is it too early and want to get a suggestion what would be an appropriate time in my case to give my gmat for fall 2013 intake..
  2. what would be the job opportunities for mim when compared to mba......and what will be the value for money for mim...
  3. will we get any aids/studentships as we get for ms in engg streams??
     if yes what would be the probability?
  4. please suggest few decent univs in usa which may match my profile...
     Thanks
     Regards
     Sumanth

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 2 January 2012 - 3:46am

    Hi Sumanth,

    thank you for your questions.

    1) i have scheduled my gmat on 31st of jan.....now i am a bit confused whether is it too early and want to get a suggestion what would be an appropriate time in my case to give my gmat for fall 2013 intake..
    Your GMAT score will be valid for 5 years. So you can do the GMAT now and the schools will accept it even in 2016 (and they will actually get your score from the GMAC organisation...)

    2) what would be the job opportunities for mim when compared to mba......and what will be the value for money for mim...
    In general, the Master in Management (MIM) qualifies you for entry positions. The idea is that you add a Master to your Bachelor in order to improve your job ENTRY chances. The MBA in contrast is for people with professional experience who already had a career start and want to FURTHER DEVELOP their career now. Please have a look at our Master in Management vs MBA article.

    3)will we get any aids/studentships as we get for ms in engg streams?? if yes what would be the probability?
    Good schools, at least in my opinion, should offer financial aid, either need-based or merit-based. And many business school websites actually have a section "financial aid". If you go for a Master in Management (MIM), the process should be: First select 3, 5, or 7 schools of your interest (in terms of the country, the reputation, the program content etc,) - then screen their websites for Financial Aid offers and check out the differences. Also, try to get a high GMAT score if you want to get a scholarship. Some schools require a score of 650 for scholarships. Finally, keep in mind that there may be several financing options, not only scholarships.

    4)please suggest few decent univs in usa which may match my profile...
    Personally I had to do with Thunderbird School of Global Management. Also Hult International Business School has two US campuses: one in Boston and one in San Francisco. Please feel free to contact Katja Gomer, Associate Director of Recruitment - again you can use the Request Info Button in our Hult profile.

    If you use our search filter "country and area" and select "USA" you will find other programs as well. Overall it is noteworthy that the MIM is not very known in the US yet (in contrast to the MBA). If it is important to do an MBA at a renowned school this is even more important when doing a MIM. Pleae pose your question about "Which career chances do MIM graduates have in the US" also to Jay and Katja - he should know more details on this than I do.

    I hope I could be helpful to you.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - kunalsharma19 - on 19 September 2011 - 6:34am

  Hi,

  Thanks for replying. I m basically Looking For U.K. I am appearing for my GMAT in mid of October. My Long term Plan is to to go for MBA after MIM. After MIM i want to work for 2-3 year then apply for MBA. I want to ask you two questions..

  1. What is current market scenario about jobs after MIM? Companies are hiring MIM students or not? I have readen lot on internet that there is no jobs for MIM students I m little bit scared about this because i want to job in U.K or U.S after my MIM. So plz help me in this topic ?

  2. I want to know about Imperial College Business School, i have visited their website they require only TOFEL for their MIM courses. Their FT ranking is 27. Could u plz tell me standard of this college i doesn't know anything about this college could pls help me in this. ?

  Thanks For your support.

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 19 September 2011 - 2:08pm

    Hi,

    thank you for your post. Well I can understand you and it is fine that you have a long-term plan with an MBA. But there is nothing to decide at the moment with respect for this. You will find out if you still "need" an MBA 3 years after your MIM or if you are happy in your job position at that moment. Just as an advice: If you feel like NOT doing a fulltime MBA then, for example because you don't want to give up a good position, you can still go for an Executive MBA 5 or 6 years later.

    (1) Job-opportunities with an MIM
    I understand that this question is important for you and it makes a lot of sense to make an issue of this before you decide for a school. Ideally you use this question as a lead question to decide for a school.

    In general, the Master in Management is a European phenomenon. This has to do with the so-called Bologna reform that started in 1999 and made all European countries unify (at least they try...) their education systems by turning prior 5-year diploma programs into 3 or 4 year Bachelor and 1 or 2 year Master programs. In the US, in contrast, the MBA still is THE traditional postgraduate education in General Management. People do their Bachelor, go to work, and later on do an MBA. Hence, on average you will find more familiarity with and acceptance of an MIM in Europe than in the US.

    MBA and MIM, however, are not the same. MBA is a program for people with work experience who want to change or expand their careers while the MIM is for graduates who want to start a career. Hence, the key question for you at the moment is: Who do you want to work for and where do you want to work after your MIM?

    • If you want to work in the US directly after graduating in your Master's, I would choose a North American MIM. There are not many but you can use our search engine to find them easily. I would contact the schools directly and ask them about their experiences with people from your country and about job opportunities.
    • If you want to work in Europe directly after the MIM, you can do the MIM anywhere basically. Then others factors play in such as school reputation, network of the school, etc. - but in general you are not limited to a specific area because of an increasing recognition of the MIM in Europe. Also here, I would contact the schools directly and ask them about their experience with students from your counry and about alumni biographies. For all business schools in the Master in Management Compass who have a full profile you can use our Request Info Button that leads you directly to our contact at the school.

    (2) Imperial College
    I don't know the College personally but I know that it has a very good reputation. As for their Master in Management, they climbed 14 ranks from 27 (in the 2010 Ranking) to 13 in the new Financial Times Master in Management Ranking published today.
    Again my advise is to contact them directly with the questions mentioned above. I would also ask them about a regulation that forbids graduates from NON-EU-countries to work in the UK after graduation. I am not sure if this regulation is still alive but you'd better ask them directly to get the most up-to-date answer.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    p.s. If you want to do us a favor please mention the "Master in Management Compass" whenever you contact a school, even if it is just an information email that you send them. Thanks a lot in advance.

    Reply

• Posted by - kunalsharma19 - on 18 September 2011 - 2:59pm

  Firstly this community is a good initiative to help students. I am very keen on MiM Programmes. I recently completed my engineering in july 2011. So i wanted enquire about MIM programmes which of them is suited for me the best ?

  I have sorted-out some of them:-

  1. Imperial College Business School
  2. City University: Cass
  3. Aston Business School
  4. Thunderbird School
  5. Duke MMS

  which of them is best suited for me?
  or could you please suggest me more schools?

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 18 September 2011 - 11:45pm

    Hi there,

    let me give you an a bit unexpected answer: I don't know which school is best suited for you. You need to find this out by yourself. If I'd tell you a different answer I would not be serious.

    All I know about you is that you have graduated in Engineering. Based on this information only ALL of the mentioned schools are suited for you. But now the real decision-making process just starts: YOU need to reflect

    • why you want to make an MIM
    • what you expect from an MIM
    • where you want to work later on
    • what you want to work later on
    • which environment (geographical environment, diversity of fellow students, etc.) you want to have around you
    • which companies you are looking for later on
    • which resources you have (finacial resources, GMAT, etc.)
      etc.

    In other words, you need to develop YOUR personal preference portfolio and THEN check to which extent each school matches it. However, this is your personal process and it's YOUR job to go through it :)

    Please feel free to come back to me and post again in this Forum if you have difficulties in developing this profile of preferences or if you have doubts on some schools. Then I can help you find answers (NOTE: I will not give you answers but I will help you find answers by yourself).

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

    • Posted by - kunalsharma19 - on 20 September 2011 - 5:28am

      Thank you very much..!!! :)

      Reply

• Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 20 August 2011 - 5:42pm

  I took the GMAT and scored a 670 q48 v35. Do you think it is sufficient for such programs as Duke MMS or LBS MiM or do I need to retake?

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 20 August 2011 - 9:53pm

    Hi there,

    congrats, 670 really is a very good score. I only made 660 :)

    I am 100% sure that with this score you fulfill the test requirements for both, the LBS and Duke. The LBS by the way mention a GMAT range of 600 to 800 on their site, so you fit in very well.

    However, please keep in mind that the GMAT often is just a minimum requirement. Whether they accept you or not depends on your overall profile and if you fit in their student portfolio plan. When you fill out the applications, take the essays and questions serious such as "How would the class benefit from you if we accept you for the program".

    Good luck!
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 26 July 2011 - 11:23am

  One more thing.

  I noticed that HSG SIM is Master of Arts in Management. How is Master of Science different from Master of Arts??

  I have read the article mentioning this on this website but can you elaborate more?

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 26 July 2011 - 5:14pm

    Hi,

    the difference between Master of Science and Master of Arts ORIGINALLY has to do with the disciplines.

    • Sciences refers to Science-studies such as Biology or Chemistry.
    • Arts refers to the Liberal Arts from the Middle Ages and eventually to the disciplines of humantities.

    Today the Master of Science still has the connotation of being more science-oriented than the Master of Arts but practically the degrees don't tell you much. They are not regulated by an institution so that any university can grant whatever degree they want to.

    I made the experience that often Masters of Arts in Management refer to programs that are open for graduates from any discipline while Master of Science in Management programs require a business or economics degree. But even this distinction is not very save and you will find many programs that do not comply with this rule of thumb.

    Bottom line:

    • Don't care about these two degrees as long as you study a program that grants one of them They are equally valuable.
    • Do care on the requirements: Do they match your profile or not?
    • And do care on the program itself (the content and structure): Does the program has courses that you had already in your undergraduates? You may want to avoid these redundancies...

    By the way, I asked the University of St Gallen about why they decided to grant the MA instead of the MSc. The person in charge will answer me - but due to the holiday time it may take some weeks...

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 25 July 2011 - 4:51pm

  Hi again

  Thank you for your response. I guess I can consider the course because it meets my profile and requirement plus it is very affordable!
  But I was just reading through some old posts mentioning that Indians have great difficulty finding jobs in EU because of language requirements and I do not think I can learn a new language now!
  Also I do not want to come back to my homeland after the degree. So I do not want to end up in a situation where I get the degree but no job!

  I have sent an email regarding this to the Admission Committee of HSG SIM, lets see what they have to say. Your thoughts?

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 25 July 2011 - 6:00pm

    Hi,

    you did the right thing by sending an email to them. Once you have a short-list of schools you need to contact them directly and pose your specific questions to them.

    • Do you have experiences with Indian students?
    • Where did they apply for after the Master?
    • How successful have they been?

    I would send a similar email also to your alternative business schools (Ivey CEMS MIM, LBS etc.) - there may be differences in theri experiences.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 24 July 2011 - 8:00pm

  Hi

  Well I will definitely try my best to promote your initiative, rest assured! ::)

  Work Experience is not an issue. I am applying for Fall 2012 Intake.

  Frankly I want to work in the US. And I like Duke's program. And also LBS program seems somewhat redundant with my undergrad.
  P.S. I cannot visit the campus!

  But the only thing pulling me towards LBS is its brand name. Btw LBS MiM is for only 9 months as an alumnus told me. I want to ask you few things:

  1. Is it right to decide upon the school based on its name in the business world ? or does it make no difference? because I realised for a fact that many employers don't even know about MiM but in such scenarios the school name can take me a long way. Correct me if I am wrong!

  2. I really like the Masters courses in ESEP and St. Gallen's flagship in Masters in Strategy and Management is just what I need!
     But these are located in the non-english speaking countries, though the courses are supposedly taught in English and I only speak English other than my native. So do you think someone who doesn't speak the native language will find it difficult to survive there and face problems while networking, looking for jobs, etc ?

  I apologise for asking so many questions. But I want to take a very informed decision about my career. Please bear with me!

  Reply

  • Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 24 July 2011 - 8:27pm

    Hi,

    As of your first question, think of this: There may be people in HR-departments

    • Who know the exact programs
    • Who don’t know the program but at least know the school
    • Who don’t know the school nor the program

    In terms of career planning I recommend to do investigate in two directions:

    ( 1 ) Employers (directly)
    Pick out two or three of your favorite future employers (or their competitors) and contact them before you start the Master program. Contact them by phone or mail, try to get someone in the HR department, tell them who you are and what your plans are and ask them

    • If they know the school
    • If they have experience with graduates from that school
    • If they visit the school for recruitment reasons once or twice per year
    • If they know the program
    • If they have experience with graduates from that program
    • If they specifically recruit people from that program
    • AND IF NOT: From which other schools or programs to they recruit Master graduates?

    ( 2 ) Business Schools (employers indirectly)
    Ask the schools about which firms came on the campus recently, e.g. on campus fairs, and where the graduates of the last Master intakes ended up after the program.

    As for your second question, I don't know ESEP.. what's that? But I know St Gallen (actually I studied 30 km away from there...) and I am sure that you will NOT have any difficulties.

    Of course, the environment speaks Swiss German. But the school has so many international students every year that you will not get any difficulties in the context of the school. And outside of the school you will get help from your German or Swiss fellows. And last but not least you are only 30 min away from Zurich where people speak English.

    Best wishes
    Thomas

    Reply

• Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 24 July 2011 - 1:54pm

  Hi again,

  I agree with you that these programs are all from highly renowned institutions. Still there are some objective differences, however, that you could clarify first (whether on eis more attractive than the other for you) - and finally you still have your gut feeling, Let's start with the objective differences:

  Duke MMS

  • Length: It's the shortest program of the three: only 10 months
  • Requirements: they seem to require some minimum work experience - so you have this? If you are unsure ask them.
  • Costs: They estimate overall costs of $65,714 or 45,700 €- do you have them?
  • Studies at another Campus: no

  London MSc

  • Length: 1 Year
  • Requirements: no work experience
  • Costs: They estimate overall costs of 36,000 GBP = $ 58,600 or 40,900 €
  • Studies at another Campus: no

  Ivey CEMS

  • Length: 1 Year
  • Requirements: no work experience
  • Costs: They estimate overall costs of $49,500 + $5,100 + $20,900 = 75,500 $ or 52,600 €
  • Studies at another Campus: yes, 50% of the studies at CEMS Partner Universities

  So, there are differences at the costs level (about 10,000 €), at the length (10 months or 12 months), and at the requirements level (work experience required or not?). In addition, the CEMS MIM offers the opportunity of studyng at CEMS partner universities and getting two degrees. If these criteria are important for you, here you go.

  Another aspect to think about is: Where do you want to work later on?
  As a rule of thumb it may make sense to choose a school in the area where you want to work later on.

  • If you want to work in Canada or the US, maybe the Ivey MSc (with or without the CEMS MIM) and Duke are better suited than the LBS, simply because the Schools are more known and more connected with firms in North America.
  • If you are interested in working in Europe, maybe the LBS and the Ivey CEMS MIM (including study trips to European Business Schol Partners) may help you getting connections to regional employers.

  Gut feeling
  If you still have more than one school on your final list - after checking all these criteria - the ultimate check (at least in my opinion) is always your gut feeling when you actually are on campus. I therefore recommend you to visit the campuses before even though it costs you extra money.

  • Where do you feel more comfortable? Don't forget that you will spend one year of your life here...
  • Where are you treated more service-oriented and friendly?
  • Where do you perceive more professionality with respects to career placement?
  • Where do you perceive the students (their age, internationality, background etc.) more on your page?
  • Finally: In which area do you want to spend one year? Are you interested in a big city or in a country side etc.?

  Hope this helps you.

  Best wishes
  Thomas

  p.s. If you wanna do us a favor... please drop the name of this website at the three schools. The more schools know about us the better. Thanks a lot.

  Reply

• Posted by - akhileshgupta05 - on 22 July 2011 - 12:02pm

  Thank you for your insights.

  How would you compare: Richard Ivery MiM CEMS vs. Duke MMS vs. LBS MiM in terms of the course itself and opportunities after the course ?

  All 3 of these are arguably the top ones in their countries. But its hard to decide since they are new and hence not in the ratings.

  I have also spoken to their alumni but its still a shady picture. So I guess your insights as a neutral should help, Any ideas?

  P.S. Personally, the location of either doesn't make any difference at this point of time. I am just looking at the course.

  Reply

• Posted by - Thomas Graf - on 21 July 2011 - 10:12pm

  Hi,

  thank you for your questions.

  I recommend you to investigate in Masters in Management (MIM) programs that REQUIRE a business- or economics-related Bachelor degree. These programs BUILD on your knowledge and will reduce redundancies in the curriculum.

  Please use our search filters "Program Focus: General Management" and "Entry Requirements: Academic pre-experience in business/economics required" to find these programs.

  As for your second question, definitely your internship will not hurt and may indeed give you a plus in the eyes of the admissions people.

  For example, if you get an average or a bit lower than average GMAT score compared to the average of the respective MIM program students you may still get into the program because if the internship. At least this is my guess.

  Best wishes
  Thomas

  Reply